Nerdhat
Across the spectrum of arts and entertainment, from fine art films to our favorite graphic novel, we share creative experiences which electrify our inner nerd, engage our nostalgia, or enliven our mildly inappropriate humor.
This is Nerdhat.
Season 8 begins Wednesday, August 12th.
Nerdhat
Dragonball: Evolution (2009)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week we cover the infamous live action adaptation of Akira Toriyama's work, "Dragonball: Evolution." Despite being a modest financial success, turning a small profit at the box office, the movie was roundly criticized by both audiences and film critics, receiving a 19% and 14% on Rotten Tomatoes, respectively.
What do you think, Nerdhatters? Do you love or hate this film, or does like more in the dreaded land of "meh" for you?
Love the podcast? Want access to additional content and updates? Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/nerdhatproductions/ or subscribe to our channel on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@Nerdhatpod for access to video clips, news, and more.
Goku has a tail in his human and great eight form in the original source material. And in the source material, if you cut off his tail, then he or if you know the sun just comes up, he he turns back into his human form. And when his cut tail is cut off. Yeah, his his humanoid saying form. When his tail is cut off, he just cannot transform back into the great ape or Uzaru. There was no tail.
SPEAKER_04Speaking of his tails.
SPEAKER_01And when we replaced the moon with an eclipse, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04My first note was it's only PG. Lame. I want some nudity. I want to see that dick. No, I don't actually want to see it, but it was um maybe not strangely, but it was definitely absent from this iteration.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm not sure where I went to. Get a stink of the board.
SPEAKER_02Nerdy. This is nerd hat. Nerd hat man with late.
SPEAKER_01Welcome, nerd hatters. This is a theory. I'm kidding. This is an evolution. Of Dragon Ball. Welcome.
SPEAKER_04What exactly evolved? That's a question I had. Like what did that subtitle even mean?
SPEAKER_01The paycheck to the script writers.
SPEAKER_04Did they just have to differentiate it from Dragon Ball? Oh, yeah. I looked that up actually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I looked that up. The movie was actually supposed to just be called Dragon Ball, but right before they it released, they renamed it Dragon Ball Evolution because the producers in the studio and stuff knew they had created a bad movie.
SPEAKER_04We have to distance this a little bit from Dragon Ball.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is hilarious that they renamed it simply because they knew they had created a bomb. Bad bomb.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, at that point, I mean it's too late. You gotta throw it out in the world and see what it does. Like it did make it its money back and a little bit extra, but not much. Right.
SPEAKER_01I mean that depends on written it off as a tax write-off, but whatever.
SPEAKER_04Depends on um what number you uh go with for the budget. Like if it was actually 30 million or if it was more than 30 million, to made around just under 57 million worldwide, which is not good.
SPEAKER_01I looked into that too, and I think 30 million might be the more reasonable budget based on special effects.
SPEAKER_04But you know, it's not they're not good. It's not, you know, Avengers level special effects, but then yeah. It wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad.
SPEAKER_01You give it too much credit, but okay.
SPEAKER_04So William, why did you choose this film, Dragon Ball Evolution?
SPEAKER_01Because I hate myself and our viewers.
SPEAKER_04Just wanted to torture yourself a bit.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I want to do cursed movies because I have a sense of humor. Uh, this is just how I see things. Maybe it's not true. Laura might want to do something artistic and uh innovative, I don't know, you know, artistic, but and you might want to do something. We all have different tastes. I can't quite put it down, but we all have different tastes. And so I'm the guy who chooses Super Mario Bros. live action movie, I'm the guy who chooses Slaughter House. Uh and unfortunately, I'm the guy who chose Dragon Ball Evolution.
SPEAKER_04So you watched Dragon Ball as a kid? How were young were how young were you when you saw your first episode?
SPEAKER_01Well, well, I I started watching from Dragon Ball Z, the s the technical sequel series from episode one. I watched it all the way up into the boo saga, and I didn't watch the rest of the boo saga until I was later when I was an adult, or at least I didn't remember the boo saga very well at the very least.
SPEAKER_04Would this have been like 96 to 2000, kind of that range in terms of how long you watched?
SPEAKER_01It sounds about right. I mean, I got the golden um and silver plastic statues from Burger King and their Happy Meal toys or whatever, Piccolo and Goku and whatever. I I can't really remember. It might have come with a trading card.
SPEAKER_04So was this popular at all in in your school back in the day? Did anyone else in your school watch it or get into it?
SPEAKER_01My friends, I guess.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01But I don't know past that.
SPEAKER_04I don't remember if I'd even I was not a popular kid. Like like this, I was let's see. Like obviously when the original Dragon Ball series came out, I would have been a young child. Like, let me think, was it 80, late 80s, right? Like 88, 89, somewhere in there when the when it came on TV. Um course, when did it come to the US? I go is a better question.
SPEAKER_01I'm not certain. All I really know is that the Dragon Ball Phantom didn't explode in America until Dragon Ball Z. Yeah. Any translations they made of the original series had to be redubbed later.
SPEAKER_04Um with the new actors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, better quality actors. There might have been some versions of the original English Dragon Ball where the characters' names were changed. I'm not sure. And I'm not talking about the change from Karurin to Krillin. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about actually like, oh my gosh, that is not that great name. Speaking of which, completely off topic, I prefer Serenity over Usagi for Sailor Moon, but I may be in the minority. But okay, back to topic. My brain just died. We're talking about Dragon Ball.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I miss popularity, right? I missed the wave. I would have been around say 13 when it came to the US when Dragon Ball Z came to. Was it Cartoon Network it came to first?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, on their uh I forget Toonami. Yes, on Toonami with that that robot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I didn't have I didn't have cable that year either. Like we had cable maybe two or three years out of my life growing up, and I think the final year was like 2000. So by that point, I kind of missed it.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, it was a miracle we had cable at that time, to be honest. Oh, yeah. My dad was really uh I was gonna say stingy, but but frugal. Frugal, frugal. I mean, at the time that might have been how it felt, but today the financial crunch is real.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah. Like our our parents, because I mean, just due to inflation, had a lot more money to play around with than we do. Like wages have not gone up, but it costs have. Anyway, we're not gonna talk about that. That's not why we're here.
SPEAKER_01We could we could do an entire podcast episode or separate podcast, but uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So getting back to the film that we're covering, which is Dragon Ball Evolution, the not the first live action adaptation, but the first big studio. The first big studio live action adaptation.
SPEAKER_01The first legally licensed one.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. Yeah, you saw that there was a fan film that came out that is now apparently on Prime.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was like originally Dragon Pearl or something, but it's been named renamed Dragon Ball. Maybe it finally got licensing. I have no idea. They call it the deluxe edition of the film.
SPEAKER_04Amazon may have made that happen.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, but um at least it's on Amazon. And I've seen clips of some other live-action Dragon Ball film, uh, which was I don't think was that one. And I don't know if that one was legally licensed or not, or if that was just another fan creation, but these things were happening in the 80s, 90s when the original manga was popular.
SPEAKER_04When you first heard about this film, like were you following Dragon Ball News? Like, how did how did you first hear about this film? Was it in a TV advertisement? Did you hear about it through the Nerdverse, a magazine? This was 2009. Yes, when it released, yes.
SPEAKER_01I was two years into getting back into Ghostbusters at this point, and I was consumed and obsessed with the Ghostbusters, the video game releasing. So even though I love Dragon Ball, it was just not on my radar, but I I learned about it somewhere somehow, probably over the internet. And I will tell you right now, I did not go to that theater to see that. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_04I was you saw the trailer and you're like, nope.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, there was a lot of nopes. I don't really remember it, but everybody was noping on it. So I was one of those it didn't even I don't even I don't have memories of being oh there's a live-action dragon movie, I've got to see that. I don't I have no memories of this. Either I completely didn't know about it until after the fact, or I knew enough to know it was trash.
SPEAKER_04And therefore early, early reviews, early reviews were coming back, yeah, negative. Um so when when was the first time you saw it? I don't know. It was years ago. So maybe a few years after release, like did you rent it from like family video or something?
SPEAKER_01No, I think I finally saw it on Amazon Prime a few years ago. Oh wow, so recent maybe. Yeah, within the recent five to ten years.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay. It's also streaming on 2B at the moment, if you if you dare to Drywall Evolution, it is according to MDB. It's getting ready to leave Prime. Um, so it won't be on Prime much longer.
SPEAKER_01Wow, we get it just in time.
SPEAKER_04Just in time. And I I couldn't quite tell you it looked like it was definitely definitely an HD, but it I what it might have even been in 4K. I don't know. It it looks pretty crisp, just resolution-wise.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I will say both tonally and just the general feel, reminded as I'm thinking about it here just a minute ago, it reminded me in terms of quality level and special effects and things like that of uh Smallville. Yeah, you know, Smallville's a television, so you have a television budget.
SPEAKER_01I didn't like Smallville, but Smallville was better.
SPEAKER_04I liked Smallville, like at least the first few seasons I I kept up with I think up through like season four-ish. Then I stopped watching it for a while, and then I came back in at season 10, kind of as it finished out its run, and Clark finally becomes Superman.
SPEAKER_01I think the reason I didn't like Smallville is because I actually enjoy the unrealistic, weird costumes of the superhero genre.
SPEAKER_04Uh and yeah, you don't get many, many costumes in Smallville.
SPEAKER_01And Smallville was very I mean, later on in the later seasons, there was like the Society of Justice or something, the Just Justice Society, they brought in them in maybe, but I think that was another series.
SPEAKER_04Oh although anyway I could be wrong though, because I I still have not seen I think like season they didn't have season six through nine school costumes. Okay. Uh mostly saw seasons one through five and then ten, most of ten, I think.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04Well, anyway, um but yeah, just quality level and and like look and feel because it's around the same time period, reminding me of Smallville. Anyway, we're not here to talk about Superman, we're here to talk about Dragon Ball evolution. Evolution. So so Will, what's your what's your first note that you took on this viewing?
SPEAKER_01Well, I can do that, or I can just ask you what how you felt about uh this whole film. But anyway, I took a lot of notes. I can just like them all just naturally talk about them as it goes along.
SPEAKER_04What's your very first one?
SPEAKER_01Maybe the writers use some aspects of Goku's son Gohan in the evolution Goku character because the Gohan II attends high school in Dragon Ball Z and falls in love with martial arts classmate, which would be Videl.
SPEAKER_04Ah, so it's like a second coming of Gohan to his grandfather in this film.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no, no, not a second coming of Gohan. Goku and Chi Chi's son, they named him after Gohan.
SPEAKER_04Ah, I see, I see. Gohan the second. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01He's not called Gohan the second in the manga anime. I just said that's called Gohan. I just just not to confuse people listening right now, because we're supposed to be reviewing a movie that does not contain the sun. I also wrote down Mai and Puar slash Oolong seem to be combined. Pilof and Shu completely absent from film. Uh I did also notice that Mai, and I don't think that her name, her character is ever named in Dragon Ball Evolution, but it appears to be Mai in the manga anime, the Piloff gang, Mai Shu, and of course Emperor Pilaf, they're the ones who off-screen somehow find Piccolo's rice cooker imprisonment.
SPEAKER_04The containment or the containment device or whatever.
SPEAKER_01And release him. And I don't know how or when they did that, but they did. So there is no context whatsoever of how Piccolo was brought back in this movie. But if you know the source material, it's fairly obvious that the Mai character, who seems to be combined with Shu because she's a ninja, when in the original Ma source material, Mai is some sort of Russian soldier or something German, I don't know. Um you wouldn't know that unless you actually knew the source material.
SPEAKER_04This movie does not Yeah, which I I only know a little bit of it. I mean there's a few back the few episodes that we watched. They do they do have the preamble at the beginning where they give you a little bit of background with uh uzumari uzumaru? Uzumaru.
SPEAKER_01Am I saying that right? Are you talking about the great ape form? Uh Uzaru?
SPEAKER_04Uz Uzaru, sorry. Uzaru.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's the Japanese in English we call it great ape, which of course I'm glad that's a note on here too. I'm glad we use the Japanese names because they just sounded more mysterious.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, he shows up in the preamble and they're like, it's like, what? He disappeared, he went somewhere when Piccolo was contained the first time 2,000 years ago. And then they leave that um a mystery. I mean, for those who are new to it. It's still a mystery. And then yeah, it's like where do you go in the interim? But just to give those who haven't seen this a little bit of an idea without spoiling too much at the moment, we don't want to just a basic overview. It you know, it begins with Goku living with his grandfather, Gohan, who is Asian and Goku is white for some reason. Somewhere along the line, you know, someone could have married someone else. You know, that's not that that's they just never explain it, they never bother to explain.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they kind of do. They don't ever explain why Goku is white.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But go they did explain that Gohan found Goku.
SPEAKER_04Spoiler.
SPEAKER_01Am I allowed to? Wait, is that at the beginning? No, they explain it later, but like this manga and anime has been out forever.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and it is somewhat consistent with the source material.
SPEAKER_04Oh, okay. Well, yes, so Gohan Gohan found Goku. Um, but just in terms of just looking at just looking at the film itself, like if you're coming in fresh with little or no background as I was, like, they don't explain in this iteration at least how Goku comes to be living with Gohan. Like, is he actually his grandson? Like, is Gohan also from another planet? Is Goku from another planet? That never gets explained or addressed in the film.
SPEAKER_01Well, he was found in a crater, so it makes sense. Oh, wait, I guess it's like it does, it does get explained. Fell from the sky.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But Gohan's origin is not talked about. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01No, uh, only that Roshi trained Gohan. Yeah. So he gets about as much background as he does in the source material. We don't know anything about Grandpa Gohan, basically, except that Roshi trained him. And then, you know, he loves his grandson, uh, which uh he adopted, found him in the wilderness. In both the source material and this movie, he found him in a crater. In the source material that he was in a spaceship, a pod in the crater. Uh but this movie doesn't explain it. And here's another thing. Uh Uzaru, of course, in in the source material, Piccolo and Uzaru the Great Ape, the Saiyan, are completely separate things. Uh yeah, I was gonna say, because they are not connected.
SPEAKER_04Isn't the episodes you and I watched last week? Isn't that is that his Uzaru form when Goku, yeah, when he transforms because he looked at the floor, you know, it's a kaiju, and this is he's just an ugly werewolf thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he's slightly larger.
SPEAKER_04Looked at the moon. Like, was it an eclipse? I'm trying to remember, or was it just it was a blood moon? I forget.
SPEAKER_01In in the source material, it's any full moon. Oh, any full moon.
SPEAKER_04So he looks at the full moon and transforms in this giant King Kong-esque uh form.
SPEAKER_01Uzaru and still has a tail. Yes, yes. Goku has a tail in his human and grade eight form in the original source material. And in the source material, if you cut off his tail, then he or or if you know the sun just comes up, he he turns back into his human form. Uh, and when his cut tail is cut off. Yeah, his his humanoid saying form. Uh when his tail is cut off, he just cannot transform back into the great ape or Uzaru. There was no tail.
SPEAKER_04Speaking of tails.
SPEAKER_01And when we replaced the moon with an eclipse, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04My first note was it's only PG, lame. I want some nudity. I want to see that dingling. No, I don't actually want to see it, but it was uh maybe not strangely, but it was definitely absent from this iteration. No, no Goku dingling.
SPEAKER_01Some of us are grateful for this, though.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they it he's just that thing's just out in the animated series, at least in that first season, man. Like the episodes we watched, I was like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a later season after the tournament at Bobad's when Goku is reunited.
SPEAKER_04Bobby D's nuts. No. Huh?
SPEAKER_01When Goku is reunited with Gohan, the deceased spirit of Gohan brought back to life temporarily for a tournament, which I feel it might in this film him dying and being shot by an energy blast and then coming back, the evolution version of Goku. He saw Grandpa Gohan in the afterlife. That might have been inspired by Goku meeting Gohan during the tournament. But anyway, after that, the peel off gang fights Goku and they shoot a beam at him. It doesn't hurt him at all, but it just shreds his clothes from his knees up to about his mid-stomach chest, and he's just naked. He's just naked during the rest of the entire fight. And so I'm letting you know that everything's out. Yeah. I will have to. I have not researched this. Maybe I don't want to know it, but I have questions about Akiri Toriyama.
SPEAKER_04Right? Was it that way in the manga?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're they're they're just making it.
SPEAKER_04Are you okay, Akira? Like, what's going on here, man? Like, what is this about?
SPEAKER_01He's unfortunately passed away now, but yeah. It must be some sort of Japanese cultural thing. I don't know. Like little kids running around naked is funny. I get like little boys, anyway.
SPEAKER_04Although I I do think of a scene in Totoro where the father takes a bath with his his two kids, and we're we were watching that, and my my wife came came in for us. She was like, What? You know, because obviously we don't do that. It's very inappropriate in our culture. But yeah, just maybe it wasn't in Japanese culture.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Like I had that experience as a child, and I want you to know you should never do that with your child because they'll remember it decades later and be like, Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, thanks. Nope.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Nope. Nope. Anyway, yes, no dinglings. This is really PG. The violence is very PG as well. Not any, I don't think I saw any blood. I'm trying to remember. There's a lot of a lot of punching, good bit of violence, destruction of a car. Goku acted like Spider-Man with banter. A lot of key shots, but no you mean airbending. Airbending, yeah. Key shots.
SPEAKER_01The movie isn't even consistent on whether or not it's elemental bending or if it's key energy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I wonder where because this was prior to Avatar the Last Air.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, well, they definitely took that from Asian religion.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was gonna say I'm assuming it had deeper, deeper roots. But yeah, that was inconsistent because it's like you're bending air versus all power comes from within yourself. From your key.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, key can come from the universe, and key can come from your inner being, ki or chi, however you choose to be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I always heard it. Um, maybe that's just always how I pronounced it, but I always thought it was qi. I've heard it said qi in other places. Uh and the subtitles kept spelling it ki, the transliteration.
SPEAKER_01In the English Dragon Ball, it's K I.
SPEAKER_04Is it um interesting?
SPEAKER_01It's definitely not airbending. That you'll never find that in the source material. There is no elemental bending in the source material.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and maybe that was one of the many drafts that part of one draft got left in and the other one.
SPEAKER_01I guess.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and that's not unique in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01There was a lot of I don't know everything, but there was a lot of problems during production of this film. Oh, yeah. And the script that they used for the final product was not the script that was originally written.
SPEAKER_04Well, apparently James Wong, at least according to Wikipedia, did the final draft. Really? But he chose not to be credited.
SPEAKER_01I heard it was whoever wrote it what didn't want to be credited. Was he the director?
SPEAKER_04Yes, he was the director. I mean, he didn't write the the first five drafts were by Ben something. Yeah, I can't think of his name. But he did the first five drafts and then James Wong, based on studio notes, did the final draft, but then went uncredited. I guess because the other guy had done most of the work.
SPEAKER_01Or because he didn't want his name touched touched with the script. Maybe. Yeah. And did that Ben guy dirty? I heard that his script, which supposedly you can find online, is somewhat better than the film we got, but although still not great. And he has come out apologizing, saying that he did this for the money and knew nothing about Dragon Ball when he signed up for this. But uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04What's in your nerd hat? We want to know. For four years, you have been listening to what we pull out of our nerd hats. Whether it's the latest Marvel blockbuster or an indie gym that just hit the festival circuit, we have covered a wide range of nerdy entertainment. If there's something that you've been hoping we would cover, we'd love to hear from you. No, really, we actually want to hear from you. If you head over to our website, that's nerdhat.bussprout.com and go to the fan mail page, you'll see a button titled Send Us a Voicemail. Click on it and follow the on-screen instructions to leave us a message. If you'd like us to include that message in the next episode, let us know. Either way, we'll add your suggestion to the nerdhat. If you'd really just prefer to send us a written message, you can drop us a DM on Instagram, follow us at NerdhatProductions, or leave a comment on one of our episodes via Spotify or YouTube. All suggestions and voice messages must meet our selection criteria and community guidelines before being published to the podcast. Subject to change. He looks like he's like eight or you know, eight or nine or something like that. Little guy. And this one he's supposed to be 17, turns 18 during the film. Was there a period in the original series where he's in high school at all? Does he ever even go to school?
SPEAKER_01Yes and no. Master Roshi during the second story arc after the peel-off story arc, they introduce his best friend Krillin, which uh starts out as a rival. Uh both Goku and and Krillin are trained by Master Roshi, and Master Roshi not only teaches the martial arts, he also teaches them math and different subjects. So this is the only education that Goku has ever received.
SPEAKER_04Ah, from Master Roshi.
SPEAKER_01And there were jokes about his age changing once he understood how math worked. Yeah. It's confusing how old Goku. To me, it's confusing how old Goku was in the source material, and according to different dubs, you know, the original, I think the original dub that I mentioned earlier before they had to redub it after Dragon Ball Z became popular. I think in that dub, I just remember watching the first episode like on a VHS or something, and and the narrator had to claim, had to explain to the audience why Goku had spiky hair. Oh, he didn't comb his hair after bed, got out of bed. But today, like nobody questions anime hair. Yeah, and they made a little bit of a. They said he was five years old, but he was not five years old in the source material. As far as I know, he was he was at least 10 or something, 12, 14.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, which in truth, well, I shouldn't say in truth, this version, the Dragon Ball Evolution version, is really old, but doesn't doesn't know it.
SPEAKER_01I looked into that, and I don't know if this is true or not, but some people seem to think that he's not a Saiyan in this movie, but is instead a reincarnation of Uzaru. Ah. But it's very confusing be because the movie says Uzaru disappeared 2000 years ago after Piccolo was sealed away. Yeah. And in and then later where did he go? Yeah. Where did he go? And why was he a baby in a crater and then had to grow up to age 18, then become a Zaru again?
SPEAKER_04Superman. Superman. Speaking of Superman, yeah. Smallville reference. Like, yeah, he basically crashes to Earth in a spaceship, aka Superman.
SPEAKER_01I'm pretty sure Toriyama was inspired by Superman when he changed Goku's origin and the source material like that.
SPEAKER_04But then where'd he come from? Like did he come from the planet where the Saiyans come from? Did he get did he get sent in the source material file? And his mother as the planet is being destroyed. No.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's exactly how it happened.
SPEAKER_04He just ripped it straight off of Superman lord. Yes. Dang. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh Bardock. Plagiarism. I don't remember the wife's name, but Bardock and his wife, depending on which version of the origin story you're watching or reading, uh knew that Frieza was about to destroy the planet. Um bar in so in one version, Bardock had dreams about the future that gave it away. I haven't finished watching the Dragon Ball Super Broly film, but I know that they reinvented the origin in that film. Um but yeah, yeah, they they knew the planet was gonna be destroyed and they sent Goku to Earth. In in some versions in the source material, Goku is sent to Earth to conquer the Earth, and in other versions he sent to Earth uh to be s rescued from the destruction of the planet Vegeta, the same planet, uh, because his father Bardock knows that it's about to be destroyed. And he does have an older brother in in the source material who dies. Uh Piccolo kills the older brother, but we're not here to talk about that. Uh I think that note right quick, I think that a reason why he's 17 or 18 in this movie, other than the fact they probably just didn't want a kid running around. I guess they thought that was unbelievable. Is that uh there are actually two fights between Goku and Piccolo in the source material. In the first one, Goku kills Piccolo after he's more or less taken over the planet. Interesting note, when he kills Piccolo, we do see the great ape Uzaru in the background, kind of like it. I don't know what it signifies, maybe it just signifies Goku has found the inner strength of the great ape. Yeah. And that might have been what inspired Dragon Ball Evolution's plot twist. That I mean, not the plot twist that he turns out to be Uzaru. I mean, that is a twist as far as just the movies.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, if you didn't know that's considered, like if you hadn't watched any Dragon Ball coming in this, which I had not watched enough. I think at some point I guessed sort of the I try to think if I ever I don't ever fully guess the connection, but he looked different enough from the Uzaro form in the early film. I don't know, but they don't call him Uzaro, do they, in that episode? I don't I don't think. The anime? Yeah. Well not the episode that we watched.
SPEAKER_01In the English, we call it the Great Ape Transformation. Yeah, so would be the Japanese term.
SPEAKER_04So I didn't hear that in the episode we watched, so I I don't think I made that connection. Um but it wasn't a complete surprise that that was but it just in terms of the plot itself, though, it is a plot twist, like you you don't know that he he is Orzaru.
SPEAKER_01So I was just gonna say the in the anime, the manga, when Goku uh the shape of the great ape is Orzaru is the faces behind Goku as he's uh about to to give the finishing blow to Piccolo, Demon King Piccolo, might have been what inspired this film's climax in which Goku accepts both halves of himself and seems to gain the Uzaru's strength in his human form.
SPEAKER_04And that's it's foreshadowed by something Gohan tells him earlier that he and it's a bit cryptic, he doesn't fully understand it. It's like you must something you must embrace your enemy and yourself, or something like that.
SPEAKER_01You must trust in who you are.
SPEAKER_04That too, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04But there was also something about coming to be one with his enemy or something too.
SPEAKER_01I just remember Gohan saying, the first rule is there are no rules.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. There are no rules. And then then Goku quotes it again. Quotes him quotes Gohan later. I cringed. Yeah, that was a little lame. So, what do you think of the the casting for this film? Yomps and what who should have been cast in in their place if you didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that Chi Chi was fine. This version of Chi Chi is actually better than the source material Chi Chi. Well, they did TT Dirty. Well, Toriyama did TT Dirty and the uh sorry, your departed Toriyama. Uh, I have opinions.
SPEAKER_04Well, I saw I saw some image stills uh what may have just been in one of the thumbnails, uh, where she shows this little girl just a little bit bigger than Goku in a bikini, and I'm like, what the why? Well, what I was trying to get made about as much sense as Goku being naked half the time.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh the the ox king Kichi's father and her lived in a castle, but they the castle was set on fire with this eternal flame that couldn't be put out, and they became homeless, and they were pretty much barbarian biker warriors running around the countryside.
SPEAKER_04Still doesn't explain the bikini. That's all she had left, I guess.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I don't know. It's some sort of bikini fantasy armor. I have no idea. But but later, and I was gonna say this earlier, but I got sidetracked. Uh, the second time Goku fights Piccolo, it's actually Piccolo's son, Ma Jr. See, in Evolution, in the mid-credit scene, we see Piccolo survive, but in the source material, he does not survive. Instead, he shoots out an egg. Yeah, yeah. In the source material, he makes those monsters and his son by spitting out eggs from his mouth. Uh but in the evolution movie, they use his blood to bring them to life, I guess.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So he shoots out an egg from his mouth uh as his last action before he succumbs to death from Goku's final blow. And then that Ma Jr., uh Evil Jr. or Piccolo Jr., whatever you want to call him, he rapidly grows up. PJ. Yeah, PJ. I'm gonna call Piccolo PJ now. So so Piccolo, he grows up and he is a tall but much younger version of his father by the time the world tournament uh begins, and by this time, Goku is a teenager, and that's probab that might be why they went ahead and made him a teenager in this also for sequel movies that never happened. So Chi Chi and Goku are both teenagers. The second time they fight Piccolo, technically Piccolo Jr., you didn't see this version of Chi Chi, but she's closer to the Chi Chi in the film. In my opinion, Chi Chi was done dirty in the source material. Sorry, Toriyama, because she's just a stereotypical mad hot-headed woman. And then after Goku and Chi Chi get married, it just it's just more of the same. She's just an angry wife. I think Dragon Ball Super tones her down a little bit, but she's just an angry wife, and Goku's just an absent dad in the source material. And we like to we fans like to pick on Goku for being an absent dad, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, I remember when we covered some Dragon Ball Z episodes back in our was it, our first or second season. It's been a long time. Yeah. At least one or two of the episodes. Goku was much older. I think all I think all the ones we watched Goku was older and think already had a family, and at least one of them Sobisui, that was Chi Chi.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the wife, yeah, that was Chi Chi.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I thought no longer wearing a armor bikini.
SPEAKER_04There was a little bit of chemistry with the actress in this one, but but not a lot. Goku and Chi Chi. Yeah, but I have to say I I'm not, with the exception of maybe like he he finally comes into his own a little bit, which I guess the character is supposed to be as well. Like I I did kind of like the actor at the end, like the final battle with Piccolo, and he like starts to embrace his Uzaru form and comes into his power. I was finally like, oh, that's a little better. Like, but for much of the film, and I'm sure this wasn't just his fault. This usually also it can be with editing, writing, directing, the whole the whole thing all together. Because sometimes an actor does the best they can with the lines, but then it's just it can be so many causes, but but yeah, he he came off uh pretty stiff, I thought, through a good bit of the film. I don't know how you felt about the the guy who played cuckoo.
SPEAKER_01I don't want to blame the actor because he was given a script that was bad.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I've seen him in some other things and he did pretty good. I thought he was in War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise, played his son, and he later he was in um Shameless, the TV series.
SPEAKER_01Right, and the actress that plays Balma starred opposite of him and they had chemistry in that series.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. They were um I have not seen it, I think. They were a couple, I think, for a while. I've seen a few episodes of it, and yeah, they were a couple, I think, for a good bit of the the series, or at least for a couple of seasons anyway. So yeah, so I've seen a minute of other things where his performance was better, so you know he probably did you know as much as he could with the material he's given.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And what did you think of the fight choreography and the wire work?
SPEAKER_01It was very American, it was very early 2000s, nine-ish, whatever, late 2000. See, that's a weird thing. We're gonna meet in the 2000s until the year 3000, and it confuses my brain. But I guess when they say the the 2000s, they made from 2000 to 2010, right?
SPEAKER_04So anyway, it was just so that didn't feel Asian to you, or I mean Asian influenced, obviously, because I think I mean you like jumping up through the air, and like you know, I'm thinking of things like Crash and Tiger Hidden Dragon and like martial arts films.
SPEAKER_01I thought it might have been an Americanized version of that.
SPEAKER_04I mean, yeah, I mean, this film is Americanized, really.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if you want true Asian martial arts choreography brought to a fantastic level, I would recommend Dragon Ball The Magic Begins. I actually thought that film had better action in it. Ah, that's funny. And more impressive martial arts scenes. I did like the scene Dragon Ball Evolution in which Goku dodges all the bullies at Chi Chi's castle. She still has a castle, apparently, in this universe. Oh, yeah, right. She's not homeless, she she lives in the castle, so good for her and her dad. I guess they're doing very well in this universe.
SPEAKER_04I guess so. Either that or someone else was hosting the party.
SPEAKER_01Well, she said it was her house, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Well, she's rich in this universe, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she was technically rich in the source material, except they couldn't get to the riches, so they were technically very poor.
SPEAKER_04Ah, okay. In this one, they're like, well, we're just gonna let her have access to her money.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. So what what do you think of um Bulma in this one compared to Well, she's not Bulma, but I don't completely hate this version of the character. I do like see in the original source material, her desire to get the Dragon Balls is because she wants a boyfriend and she's going to Yeah, right. And I have no idea why she just can't get a boyfriend. Uh, why what is like everybody's afraid of her? She can't ask anyone out, there's just no one in her class she likes. I have no idea. Why can't you just ask you built a dragon radar radar? Is it because people think you're a nerd? Is it are people intimidated by the fact that you're basically a royalty because you're the daughter of this famous scientist that created all the dyno caps? Um they're too intimidated. Yeah. I mean, I it's never explained why.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's like I must find all the dragon balls so that I can get a boyfriend. So that I can get a boyfriend. It's kind of lame, actually. Yeah, yeah. Although it's played for humor a bit because then Yamcha comes into the picture and he's just longing for a girlfriend, but he's afraid of women, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and of course, both of those motivations are completely absent from this film, which yeah, I'm not entirely against that.
SPEAKER_04Not to mention Yamcha's little sidekick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, poar. It's not in it. I I wrote my notes that they at least could have just had a random cat with them. He just a cat. He doesn't have to talk or nothing. It's just a cat. He calls it Pu'ar.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, maybe they could have thrown a pig in there too. Yeah. Thought about that just to reference a walking, talking pig, but just a just a pig for fun for fun.
SPEAKER_01Or they could have made Oolong one of the school bullies. They just had just make him fat or where's a cap or something.
SPEAKER_04Well he wasn't fat in the in the series. Well, he's a pig.
SPEAKER_01He's a pig, but but yeah, he wasn't that fat. Or they could have, I mean, the the episode introduces Oolong. He is a bully ste kidnapping girls to make it uh because he wants lots of wives, and he eventually gets beat up by Goku and he gives all the girls back to the village because honestly they're just cost too much money and they keep bossing him around giving him honeydo lists. Which it's it's fun, it's comedy in the source material. But yeah, they could have made Ulong a bully at school.
SPEAKER_04According to Wikipedia, and I don't know how much you read about this or heard about this, but like there were definitely some complaints back back at the time about them whitewashing some of the characters. Kind of 50-50 because like some of the main characters are not Asian at all. Right. You know, but then some of the other ones are, you know, you have Chow Yon Fat who plays Roshi, and then obviously Gohan is played by an Asian man. I agree keeping them Asian, and Mai, obviously Piccolo, it doesn't really matter, and it's a guy, it's a guy in makeup anyway. The actor is not Asian.
SPEAKER_01But I heard that actor fought the producers to keep Piccolo green because they were just gonna make him a handsome gray alien. Grey. Yeah, they wanted him to be painted gray instead of green. I don't know why. Huh. But yeah, you were saying?
SPEAKER_04Isn't a lot of anime? Maybe this is controversial, but isn't a lot of anime kind of half whitewashed anyway? Because I've always got this like there's a lot of anime I've seen where the characters look very American. I don't know if they're supposed to be Japanese, but like they look very white in a lot of and I know obviously a lot of Japanese people are very light skinned, but more of like their face structure and even down to how they behave sometimes.
SPEAKER_01It's an art style, yeah. So it can be hard to tell sometimes in a manga anime if they're supposed to be Asian or or Caucasian, but you can usually tell by context.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Are they living in Japan? I mean, let's just put it this way Sailor Moon, who I call Serenity, but her name is actually Usagi. She has blonde hair, pigtails. You would think she's Caucasian, but whenever they do depict her in live action, she's Asian. Yeah. And so the artistic liberty of giving anime characters different hair colors other than black. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of variety, but then it makes you think, well, this ginger character must be a Caucasian or this blonde must be Caucasian when they're not.
SPEAKER_04And it and it to me, it's like also And when you watch Sailor Moon, you know she lives in Japan. Some of the skin tone, but also facial features too. Like they they look less Asian.
SPEAKER_01So so what I'm trying to say is you need to pick up context. Like in the Gundam Wing anime, you know that I forget his name, but he Piloted the the Angel of Death Gundam. One of my favorite characters at the time, you know he's Caucasian because they say he's from America, or at least we assume he's Caucasian because he comes from America. And there are different characters that seem very much not to be Asian, but then the hero, H-I-R-O, that's his name, maybe the most main protagonist, he's definitely Asian. He's definitely Japanese. Uh, and they draw his eyes, I if I remember correctly, to to look that way. But yeah, I think that context is the best way to figure out.
SPEAKER_04I'm assuming that the choices, as is often the case when movies come over to the US, they make changes like that because they want American audiences to identify with the main characters, or at least some of the main characters. Although I thought given that it was an interesting choice that they released this in Japan and other Asian countries first. First. Before releasing it in America, which is kind of it's like interesting, okay. You decided to change three of the main characters and make them white, but now you're releasing it in Asia first.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh Akira Toriyama might be cited in the credits as a producer or something on this, but he was not on there for I don't know, just to make it seem like he contributed. He tried contributing, he read the script, he said this script is no good. This will bomb, it's not correct. This is not Dragon Ball, but they refused to listen to him. And at the time he was a little nicer when the movie came out, but later, see Dragon Ball Evolution is what contribution it gave us is it made the series continue. We got two movies, Battle of the Gods and Return of F or something, I can't remember, the the one where Frieza comes back, and then those turned into this the Dragon Ball Super anime and manga. And then Tori Otaru, the longtime fan artist that did Dragon Ball fan comics, was actually named by Kiritoriyama as his successor and was drawing Dragon Ball Super Manga as the anime was being broadcast. What I'm saying is that if anything, Dragon Ball Evolution saved the franchise. Even though it was a terrible film, it ticked Kiritoriama off, and and at the time he was nice about it. But years later, when Battle of the Gods came out, interviews around that time revealed that he didn't like this movie. No surprise. Yeah, it put fire in him to come out of retirement to save his legacy.
SPEAKER_04Nice. So it's the reason we got more Dragon Ball. Alright, so we got just a few minutes left. We don't want to go too long with this review here.
SPEAKER_01There's so much we could talk about. We just don't have the time for it.
SPEAKER_04I I will say overall, now some of this is because I've watched the episodes with you last week and I've seen enough Dragon Ball. Seeing this film did make me want to explore the lore a little bit more. Not just to see like where does it diverge and where did it, but it interested me enough. I was like, oh, it's not a great movie by any means, but I kind of enjoyed myself. Oh, okay. Overall, like I didn't hate it. I didn't hate it, you know. I didn't again, not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination.
SPEAKER_01I'm really glad the source material that you didn't fully watch didn't cause you to be like, this movie sucks.
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean, you know, in fairness, the source material it's not like it's I don't exactly put it. I can see that's an acquired taste as well. Like it's not uber serious. And I don't know if he geared it. Did he mean to gear it towards kids when he first put it out, or was it geared more towards older? Was it kind of a like a just whatever?
SPEAKER_01Our cultures are different, so I can't entirely say. I think if I remember correctly, it was geared towards teenagers. Okay. But in the first story arc, the Emperor Peel Off arc, in those days, it was a gag comic. Uh an adventure fantasy gag comic, but switched to more of a fighting comic in the second storyline where there's training and gets into like Piccolo's storyline.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Well, actually in the original series, Piccolo's takes a long time to get to.
SPEAKER_04Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_01So in the second story, Master Roshi trains Krillin and Goku, and then they it culminates in the first their first entry into the world martial arts tournament. The book was selling better when they focused on action, when Toriyama focused on action, so the editor told him he had to to change it. Toriyama wanted it to be a fantasy comedy. The editors gave him all sorts of directions and he he did obey it uh for the most part. What he didn't obey is they told him, absolutely do not age up Goku. And he did. Yeah. They had to publish it because he he purpose Korea Toriyama purposely sent them the story where he fights Piccolo the second time, specifically sent on purpose that those pages in at the last second, so they could not ask him to redraw it. I can talk about Dragon Ball all day. Yeah. We need to get back to topic.
SPEAKER_04Um, ratings, I guess, like this go round um at this point in your life. How many nerd ads would you give Dragon Ball Evolution?
SPEAKER_01I don't know, a two out of five, maybe. Okay. Maybe a one. But you see, Super Mario Brothers live action movie is so bad it's good. Sloth or half really isn't in the same genre, but it but it's good. It's like purposely can't be bad good. But this movie, I feel like it's just bad. It's just so bad it's bad. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think I I think I'd give it a little bit higher, maybe 2.5. Okay.
SPEAKER_01But I don't believe in halves, Richardson.
SPEAKER_04But I think I think part of the reason that I it's easier for me to rate it a little higher is simply because I'm not as familiar with Dragon Ball. Uh I feel like if I had been a big fan of Dragon Ball, I would probably dislike it more. Similar to how, even though I love the Lord of the Rings movies, still to this day, I hate what they did with Faramir's character because he was one of my favorite characters from the book. I just I really liked his character, and and then they just ruined certain aspects of his his character in the films. Still mad about that Peter Jackson. Love everything else he did. So much of it was near perfect. That was not. But yeah, I I think it's kind of in that like, like I enjoy myself, but it but it it's forgettable, you know.
SPEAKER_01Like it feels like a children's movie. The source material had much sharper, more intelligent writing and the dialogue and everything. I mean, I love talking about it, but you know, our episode is getting pretty long, so I need to stop.
SPEAKER_04The Nerdhat Podcast was crafted without the assistance of Generative AI. Was recorded, produced, and edited by Richard Best. Copyright Nerdhat Productions 2026. You can follow us on Instagram at NerdhatProductions, on YouTube at NerdhatPod, and of course, on all of the major podcasting platforms like Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, and more. Well, Nerdhatters, until next time, live long and prosper.
People on this episode
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
Treknicity - A Star Trek Podcast
Treknicity Podcast
Twin Cities Trekkies
Twin Cities Trekkies
Stuff You Should Know
iHeartPodcasts
Radiolab
WNYC Studios
Filmspotting
Filmspotting
WHAT WENT WRONG
Sad Boom Media
Do It For the Process: For The Artists by Emily Jeffords
Emily Jeffords
Spooked
KQED and Snap Studios
Nerd of Mouth
The Last Podcast Network
The Film Flamers: A Horror Movie Podcast
The Film Flamers